This week, attorneys in the Elon Musk vs OpenAI trial presented their final arguments. Now the jury has to decide whether OpenAI did anything wrong when it transformed into a somewhat more-for-profit company.

The closing days of the trial centered on one theme. Is OpenAI CEO Sam Altman reliable? Kirsten Korosec, Sean O’Kane, and I discussed this on the latest episode of TechCrunch’s Equity podcast. For instance, Steve Molo, Musk’s lawyer, questioned Altman about statements he made in congressional testimony.

Kirsten noted that Musk has made many false claims of his own. Altman is not the only one who struggles with trust.

“For many tech journalists, legislators, and a growing number of customers, this is a basic question [about] all the AI labs,” she said. “It really comes down to trust. We do not necessarily have the insight. These are all privately held firms, and there is still a lot behind the veil.”

Read on for a summary of our discussion, edited for clarity and length.

Who Trusts Sam Altman?

Anthony Ha: One of our writers, Tim Fernholz, wrote a daring title at the end of the trial. It simply asks, “Who trusts Sam Altman?” Would someone like to answer it?

Kirsten Korosec: I will give it back to you, Anthony. Do you trust Sam Altman?

Anthony: It is an intriguing question. It seems strange to ask in a journalistic setting. In many respects, though, it is the main point of the trial.

Sean O’Kane: The answer is no.

Why Altman’s Trustworthiness Sits At The Center

Anthony: It appears fundamental to understanding much of what happened at OpenAI. That includes the executive power struggle they now call “The Blip.”

Many people who worked with Altman seem to lack confidence in him. He has admitted this to some extent. He talks about how he is trying to address his conflict aversion and his tendency to tell people what they want to hear.

That makes sense to me. I can see how it might cause miscommunication in some cases. But I am also quite conflict-averse. If any of this went to trial, I would like to think nobody would ask, “Is Anthony Ha trustworthy?”

Sean: I am still not sure!

Kirsten: I believe you are trustworthy. The question is thought-provoking. Still, it does not fully capture the essence of this trial.

Zooming out further, many tech journalists, policymakers, and a growing number of consumers ask this about all the AI labs. These businesses are privately held. Much remains hidden behind the scenes. So it truly comes down to trust.

We might get a glimpse when they all go public. But trust and abuse are at the core of this. Can we trust the intent? Good intentions can sometimes be abused. It might even turn out to be a bit of a show. Altman’s trustworthiness was a fascinating part of this trial. Still, I think the issue applies to the whole industry.

Sean: To be honest, I do not trust him. I suppose that is just my baseline, because I do not trust most people.

What Comes Next For The Jury

Sean: We will watch how this develops. Today is the last day of the trial. I am eager to see how the jury reaches its decisions.

I believe Musk’s initial attempt to disparage a rival drove much of this. He also felt that rival had wronged him. I am not sure we know enough to say whether he has a chance to win. I do think each of these men looked slightly worse afterward.

Altman’s Congressional Testimony Under Fire

Anthony: To be more precise, this came up this week because Musk’s attorney questioned Altman about earlier remarks. Altman made them in testimony before Congress. He essentially claimed he had no ownership stake in OpenAI. But he held a stake through Y Combinator, which he used to run. So the claim was untrue.

Altman tried to dismiss it. “I assume that everybody understands what it means to be a passive investor in a VC fund,” he said. To be fair, I believe Musk’s attorney replied, “Really? Do you believe the congressman who interviewed you knew that?”

How Altman And Musk Handled Their Falsehoods

Kirsten: He was really playing the semantics game. What fascinated me most was how Altman answered questions compared with Musk on the stand.

Musk posted something on Twitter that was a lie, or a bit of a fib. He then corrected the record while testifying. Altman took a different approach. He adopted an “I am working on it” attitude and tried to seem affable. I am not sure that will work for him.

Musk has a history of non-truthfulness-slash-lying, blatant or not. But he handled it in an extremely combative way.

The jury should focus on the essential facts, because those are what actually matter. Still, I found this intriguing. Both men lied, but they handled it in quite different ways.